Who is Ariel Sharon?
Interview by Amos Oz in 1982
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The Middle East is
living a nightmare, notably because of a man of Russian origin who became
Prime Minister of Israel: Ariel Sharon. What is the profound thought of
this man? This is what Amos Oz, an Israeli writer, help us to discover
through an interview published by the Israeli daily Davar in December 17,
1982.
Amos Oz reproduced
this interview, with others, in his book in Hebrew, 1982: Amos Oz: Poh va-sham
be-Erets-Yisra'el bi-setav, 1982, republished by Am Oved, Tel-Aviv, 1986.
The interview is on pages 70-82. Amos Oz does not mention the name of
Sharon, but uses the abbreviation Z. The facts given by Amos Oz indicate
that the person interviewed is Ariel Sharon.
This book has been
published in French: Amos Oz: Les voix d'Israël, translated by Guy Seniak,
Calmann-Lévy, Paris, 1983. The interview is on pages 79-91. Here again,
Amos Oz does not mention the name of Sharon, but uses the abbreviation T.
A French version is also produced in: Letter no 2 of
FAITS ET DOCUMENTS, 3 September
2001:
http://www.argent.fr/fetd2.htm.
This interview was transmitted by Genie Trone -
etrone@webtv.net
-, member of a discussion group on Internet called Together, founded by
the Israeli journalist Israel Shamir. In the introduction, it is said that
the person interviewed is certainly Ariel Sharon.
The same book has
been published in English: Amos Oz: In the Land of Israel, translated by
Maurie Goldberg-Bartura, 1st Vintage Books Edition, New York, 1984. Here
again, Amos Oz does not mention the name of Sharon, but uses the
abbreviation C.
I produce here the
interview as published in:
http://www.counterpunch.org/pipermail/counterpunch-list/2001-September/013054.html
It is indicated
that the man referred to as C. is Sharon. The interview can be also found
in:
http://www.islamicparty.com/commonsense/33sharon.htm
and in:
http://www.dubaiphotomedia.com/english/voice/interviews/sharonoz.PDF
I invite the
readers to distribute this text worldwide. It may help opening the eyes of
many people and save innocent lives.
The
interview of Ariel Sharon by Amos Oz
[Sharon]: "You can
call me anything you like. Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that
I don't hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more at ease
with them, and especially with the Bedouin, than with Jews. Those Arabs we
haven't yet spoilt are proud people, they are irrational, cruel and
generous. It's the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten them
out you have to first bend them sharply the other way. That, in brief, is
my whole ideology".
"Call Israel by
any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi state as does Leibowitz. Why not?
Better a live Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint. I don't care whether I am like
Ghadafi. I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don't need their
love. I don't need to be loved by Jews like you either. I have to live,
and I intend to ensure that my children will live as well. With or without
the blessing of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the New York
Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise a hand against my children, I
will destroy him and his children, with or without our famous purity of
arms. I don't care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan. History
teaches us that he who won't kill will be killed by others. That is an
iron law".
"Even if you'll
prove to me by mathematical means that the present war in Lebanon is a
dirty immoral war, I don't care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me
that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of our aims in Lebanon,
that we will neither create a friendly regime in Lebanon nor destroy the
Syrians or even the PLO, even then I don't care. It was still worth it.
Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year's time, I don't
really care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more,
until they will have had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it?
Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the
so-called civilised world".
"We'll hear no
more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons
of the holocaust or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged from
the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of that. The destruction of
Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity we did not wipe out that hornet's nest
completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre
(can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have
committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do
it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique
people and of being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no
more sweetness and light. Good riddance."
"I personally
don't want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad
or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese
with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and
more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do
the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them,
the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they
feel like eating. They don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished
by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at
last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me. Maybe they will
start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility.
Thank God for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let
them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings,
not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered -
just one! That we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle
East! If anything would happen to your child, God forbid, you would talk
like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China
that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most
junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that!"
......We are
talking while sitting on the balcony of the pretty country house belonging
to C. which is situated in a prosperous Moshav. To the west we see a
burning sunset and there is a scent of fruit trees in the air. We are
being served iced coffee in tall glasses. C. is about fifty years old. He
is a man well known for his (military) actions. He is a strong, heavy
figure wearing shorts but no shirt. His body is tanned a metallic bronze
shade, the colour of a blond man living in the sun. He puts his hairy legs
on the table and his hands on the chair. There is a scar on his neck. His
eyes wander over his plantations. He spells out his ideology in a voice
made hoarse by too much smoking:
"Let me tell me
[sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in
Lebanon: It is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they
now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York,
Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these
nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli
thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent. Just like the
assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged the anti-Semite not to confuse
him with the screaming, stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into
that cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine and Poland.
It won't help them, those clean Yids, just as it did not help them in
Vienna and Berlin. Let them shout that they condemn Israel, that they are
all right, that they did not want and don't want to hurt a fly, that they
always prefer being slaughtered to fighting, that they have taken it upon
themselves to teach the gentiles how to be good Christians by always
turning the other cheek. It won't do them any good. Now they are getting
it there because of us, and I am telling you, it is a pleasure to watch."
"They are the same
Yids who persuaded the gentiles to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam,
to give it in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh Yamani
because of his tough childhood, to make love not war. Or rather, to do
neither, and instead write a thesis on love and war. We are through with
all that. The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus, but he
also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They are being identified with
us and that's a good thing! Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their
synagogues are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived,
they are being expelled from the best clubs, people shoot into their
ethnic restaurants murdering small children, forcing them to remove any
sign showing them to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their
profession.
"Soon their
palaces will be smeared with the slogan: Yids, go to Palestine! And you
know what? They will go to Palestine because they will have no other
choice! All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war. Tell me,
wasn't it worth it? Soon we will hit on good times. The Jews will start
arriving, the Israelis will stop emigrating and those who already
emigrated will return. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally
understand that it won't help them to try and be the conscience of the
world. The 'conscience of the world' will have to understand through its
arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt
sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one
option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to
build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner
of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to
make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us
we'll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil.
We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until he no longer feels like
it..."
"...You probably
want to know whether I am not afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to
escape anti-Semitism smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft
like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there is a dialectic
here, irony. Who was it who expanded the state of Israel almost up the
boundaries of the kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until it
covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad? Levi Eshkol. Of all
people, it was that follower of Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who,
on the other hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the ghetto?
Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain a civilised image? Beitar's
governor in Poland, that proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I
only know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting for your life
all is permitted, even to drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank,
everything."
"Leibowitz is right,
we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to
be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp
shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers.
Worse than the Nazis ... If your nice civilised parents had come here in
time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing
'Hear O Israel' on the way to the gas chambers, now don't be shocked, if
they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what
would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been
written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of
names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!"
"Even today I am
willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many
Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have
everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora
Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means
blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care. And I don't
mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and
then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. Then you
can spruce up your Jewish conscience and enter the respectable club of
civilised nations, nations that are large and healthy. What you lot don't
understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from
it. True, it could have been finished in 1948, but you interfered, you
stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness in your souls, because
of your Diaspora mentality. For the Jews don't grasp things quickly. If
you open your eyes and look around the world you will see that darkness is
falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew who stays out in the
dark. So I am glad that this small war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let
them be afraid, let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets
really dark. So I am an anti-Semite? Fine. So don't quote me, quote
Lilienblum instead [an early Russian Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to
quote an anti-Semite. Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an
anti-Semite, there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him". (C.
quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his table when I arrived:)
'Is all that is
happening not a clear sign that our forefathers and ourselves ... wanted
and still want to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.' That's
Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through the Zionist literature, I
can prove what I say".
"And you can write
that I am disgrace to humanity, I don't mind, on the contrary. Let's make
a deal: I will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will do all I
can to increase anti-Semitism, and you will write poems and essays about
the misery of the Arabs and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to
flee to this country and teach them to be a light unto the gentiles. How
about it?"
It was there that I stopped C.'s monologue
for a moment and expressed the thought passing through my mind, perhaps
more for myself than for my host. Was it possible that Hitler had not only
hurt the Jews but also poisoned their minds? Had that poison sunk in and
was still active? But not even that idea could cause C. to protest or
raise his voice. After all, he said to have never shouted under stress,
even during the famous operations his name is associated with.
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